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“There's no way, with hindsight, I would've ever called up Larry, called up Magic and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team.'
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-- Michael Jordan
So what does Jordan, one of the best-ever in the NBA, think of LeBron James joining with All-Stars Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh to form a super team in Miami?
"There's no way, with hindsight, I would've ever called up Larry, called up Magic and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team,' " Jordan said after playing in a celebrity golf tournament in Nevada. "But that's ... things are different. I can't say that's a bad thing. It's an opportunity these kids have today. In all honesty, I was trying to beat those guys."
James, who played his first seven seasons with his home state Cleveland Cavaliers, was part of one of the most celebrated free agent classes in history this summer. He met with the Cavs, Chicago Bulls, Los Angeles Clippers, Miami Heat, New York Knicks and New Jersey Nets.
James let the world know he was taking his talents to South Beach in an hour-long TV special on July 8.
TNT analyst Charles Barkley said James' decision may change his legacy.
"He'll never be Jordan," Barkley told 790 the Ticket in Miami earlier in the week. "This clearly takes him out of the conversation. He can win as much as he wants to.
"There would have been something honorable about staying in Cleveland and trying to win it as 'The Man' ... LeBron, if he would've in Cleveland, and if he could've got a championship there, it would have been over the top for his legacy, just one in Cleveland. No matter how many he wins in Miami, it clearly is Dwyane Wade's team."
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22 comments:
I love it!!! Keep stoking the embers...let the Heat burn the fire
Jordan can say what he wants b/c he was stuck in a contract he could never get out of back in the day.
Like he said...hindsight...never said that if he was in the league now, with the talent in the league now, that he wouldn't do it.
I believe a long time ago Lebron got used to the fact that without winning a title he would just be a Barkley and also wouldn't be in the same sentence as Jordan. I also feel he wants his own legacy and not the next best Jordan. He is smart..everyone keeps thinking that this whole thing wasn't thought out or they underestimated the backlash of his decision. He knows damn well what the ramifications were of his decision, as well as Wade knowing. I still find it hard to believe that b/c we as sports fans feels so badly for "Cleveland" fans that we would be happy if he played 7 more seasons and only won 1 title. Not a fair comparison for Jordan with all of his titles, but Lebron is the next Jordan b/c he won 1? We put all this pressure on players and where they should go based on our own "moral values", what we feel he should do? At the end of the day, b/c of his decision, people will still remember Lebron James, titles or not. It's a business, he's selling himself and trying to max out his image, couldn't do anymore in Cleveland, might as well try Miami.
Will Lebron James be viewed as a no talent athlete when the dust settles, or the guy who got tired of trying to carry a team, a city or a torch of hope? Lebron James is a baller, he's not the next Jordan...he's Lebron James and at the end of the day, any organization would welcome his services even if they knew how he would do it (i.e., The Decision).
Remember, none of us know how this whole thing in Miami will turn out, maybe a new legacy, maybe not, but we can't put any kinks in Lebron's armor, he's too smart for that. Like Wade said, keep talking, fuel the fire. Speaking for myself and sports, there is no worse feeling than competing against people who are counted out just to have them ram it down your throats. And "when" that happens...winning commands "respect".
I agree with the concept of what you said Blaze but not the detail that Lebron is "too smart for that."
What has he done that would make anyone thing he's too smart for anything?
If he would have known the fallout from "the decision," I highly doubt he would have done it the same way.
He's a 25 year old kid that's never had any real world experience. He's been "the one," since birth. Always a star athelete in everything. Always having everyone meet all his needs. He probably took some bad advice on the whole ESPN thing.
He came off very badly on that special, and there's no way it was his intention to come off bad. He cares about his brand too much, he has too big of an ego not to care.
I don't begrudge him for going to Miami, and I don't really buy into the fact that he will not be seen as elite if he wins 4 or 5 titles and is the MVP in all or most of the series. Winning has a way of erasing bad memories. But he did put a lot of pressure on himself to not only win, but win big. One or even two titles will not do, it's going to have to be a dynasty or bust.
What about Walton or Kareem? They left their teams, went on better teams, and won championships. They are considered two of the top 20 and top 5 best players ever.
Kareem didn't go to a better team. The team he was on was World Champions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Walton
"The following year, (77-78) the Blazers won 50 of their first 60 games before Walton suffered a broken foot in what turned out to be the first in a string of foot and ankle injuries that cut short his career. He nonetheless won the league NBA Most Valuable Player Award (MVP) that season (1978) and the Sporting News NBA MVP, as well. He played in his only All-Star Game in 1978 and was named to both the NBA's First All-Defensive Team and the All-NBA First Team. Walton returned to action for the playoffs, but was reinjured in the second game of a series against the Seattle SuperSonics. Without Walton to lead them, Portland lost the series to Seattle in six games. As it turned out, Walton would never play for the Trail Blazers again. During the offseason, Walton demanded to be traded, citing unethical and incompetent treatment of his and other players' injuries by the Blazers' front office. He did not get his wish and sat out the 1978-79 season in protest, signing with the San Diego Clippers when he became a free agent in 1979."
Sounds like Walton was a crybaby by demanding the trade which he didn't get. He went to a worse team when he left the Blazers as a free agent. He was about done when he signed w/ the Celtics to be a backup.
We are also not comparing apples to apples. Sure Wade and Lebron are 2 of the top ten players in the league, but Bosh(while good) is nowhere near the other 2.
Now if lebron, Kobe, and Wade would have teamed up, that would be different.
Also, Jordan, Bird, and Magic all played in large markets. Lebron played in Cleveland. That is another MAJOR difference.
Oh, one other thing. Jordan, bird, and Magic all played with other hall of famers on their teams. Other than Lebron, Cleveland has failed miserably to surround Lebron with talent.
Great Point Regs....and let's not forget how great Pippen was. Top 50 of ALL Time!
Jordan and Pippen is a better combo than D-Wade and Lebron. And Bosh...is akin to when Rodman....the top rebounder in the NBA at the time joined forces with him.
And Yes....Kluge Kareem left the greatest NBA team off all time just because he felt Milwaukee didn't have enough Muslims in the city. Just think the Bucks could have had a dynasty if Kareem didn't bail......history is so cruel. But that's all right cause a few years later the Brewers went to the world series!!!!! Milwaukee Rules!!!!!
True Sully, Kareem and Walton were champions themselves and then went to better teams and won more. Walton was at the end of his career but Kareem was "just getting warmed up!"
Regs, that is an excellent point that these guys had Hall of Famers on their teams. Also, Cleveland is not a major market. Cleveland had a lot more to lose then Lebron did.
And as far as Lebron not being as good as Jordan, who cares. He is Lebron. I agree with Jason that if he wins a couple or three or four, he will be one of the greatest of all time. Even Magic wasn't considered the greatest until he won without Kareem.
Other then Rodman, Jordan didn't play with other hall of famers. He made them that good. Thats why he was so great. Does Pippen belong anywhere near the top 50 or the hall of fame?....NO! We saw what happened when Jordan left him. Thats what Lebron is now, he's playing Scottie Pippen to Wade's Michael Jordan.
Wow....GOAT you really just exposed yourself for lack of any NBA credibility.
Pippen is a sure thing Hall of Famer and he is on the TOP 50 NBA Players....it's not an opinion of mine it is a fact. The league voted on it a few years ago....and Yes Pippen was on it.
And what do you mean look at what happened the year Jordan left?????
Jordan left a 57 win team to go play baseball and Pippen lead them to 55 wins and Game 7 of the EASTERN CONFERENCE FINALS!!!!
The Bulls got hosed on a late call and the Knicks made it to the finals?????
So the Bulls only dropped 2 games from the year before WITH Jordan.
Do you think the Cavs are going to only win 2 less games this year???
No I don't have a lack of NBA credibility. You didn't get my post. I know he is a sure thing hall of famer and on the top 50! I said he's only in that position because of Jordan. He was an above avg. player, thats it. I don't care how many regulear season games they won the year after. He coudln't get it done. Obvioulsy the Cavs won't only loose two more games cause there left with absolutely nothing now.
Just cause a handful of people vote someone into something doesn't mean its right. Its a "fact" that he's on these lists. Its an opinion whether or not he deserves too be. I think they need separate wings of the Hall Of Fame. A wing for guys like Jordan and Magic, then a different section for guys like Pippen. Maybe they can go into the basement of the Hall? Its a good thing the Bulls didn't make it to the Finals cause that really would have exposed Pippen. They would have gotten killed by Olajuwon and the Rockets
Enough already GOAT; Pippen was awesome, nothing you say will take away stats. Learn to respect the greats who voted for the greats, your "fan" opinion is a futile argument. This is not like voting for the MLB All-Star game.
On another note on Jordan and leaving:
Jordan's rookie contract was a 7-year, $6.3 million contract
In September 1988 (4 years into his rookie contract), Jordan's agent negotiated a new 8-year, $26 million contract for him.
Where or when would he leave? He is answering a question about a position he was never in. Imagine not winning those titles, and stuck in an eight year contract. Jordan is just trying to show he still has influence on a new generation of ballers, who contrary to the popular opinion, want to make their own legacies.
and GOAT, one thing you are right about is look what happened when they were split up. The whole team dynamic took a hit. Just another good point supporting why Lebron went to play with talent instead of a team of role players.
Doesn't the voting come from sports writers for the hall? Thats not greats voting for greats now is it? Its basically fan voting. There are guys who deserve to be in there that aren't and guys who don't that are. I just don't think he deserves it. And hes an ugly son of a bitch too!
The fifty players were selected through a vote by a panel of media members, former players and coaches, and current and former general managers. In addition, the top ten head coaches and top ten single-season teams in NBA history were selected by media members as part of the celebration. [1] The fifty players had to have played at least a portion of their careers in the NBA and were selected irrespective of position played.
Ok. So then i'm right about the hall though and saying he was voted onto the 50 greatest list by other greats is not all true cause its a panal with some guys mixed in who didn't play. So yea.....i'm still not buying he belongs on either list. Just my opinion. "Role Player" and "talent" arent necessarily a separate thing. The role players on the bulls had thier own talents. Thats what made Jordan so great. He knew exactly what each guys strenghts were and brought them out. He brought them to their full potential. That what a leader does. Lebron just isn't that type of talent. He's not good enough to win with just role players. Which is fine, but don't hold an hour long "look at me i'm king shit, better then everybody" bore fest. Just hold a press conference like any other player.
If you guys remember back a while ago when we already had this how good was Pippen dispute, my Bulls loving cousin reminded me about Pippen's numbers after MJ left & how he was one of the Top 5 players in the game.
From Bulls.com about the Jordan-less 93-94 team: "Scottie Pippen had a tremendous season in all facets of the game. The leading vote-getter for both the All-NBA First Team and the NBA All-Defensive First Team, he ranked eighth in the league in scoring (22.0 ppg), 23rd in rebounding (8.7 rpg), 19th in assists (5.6 apg), and second in steals (2.93 per game). Pippen also won MVP honors at the 1994 NBA All-Star Game, in which he was joined for the first time by teammates Horace Grant and B. J. Armstrong."
I don't agree at all that LeBron didn't have worthy teammates to help him win a Championship with the Cavs. The Cavs had the best rocord in the League the past 2 seasons! Yes, better than the Champion Lakers!
Jamison was a great pick up by the Cavs. Maybe he didn't end up meshing into the system as well as he could have, but he was also playing 6.5 minutes LESS per game than he was in Washington so him being on the floor less could have something to do with that. Shaq, while past his prime, is still a bruiser who isn't going to be pushed around. That is a Big 3 in itself!
Those "mixed other guys" didn't have to play. "Their" opinion was respected enough. They just didn't hand out raffle tickets or say first come, first vote. The difference between their opinion and yours is that yours only appears on the DOJO. The chosen voters were people who knew their shit, and not just fans like you and myself. Of course he didn't need an hour long special but I really am not sure what Lebron's hourly rate goes for. In the end it was a BUSINESS decision that will pay more now than maybe finally winning in Cleveland.
Just a quck post note on the Pippen thing, he was NOT 1 game away from the finals in '94. The Knicks beat them in the 2nd round that year.
I'm really not sure what is being argued here anymore. Is it that LeBron is not as good as Jordan? Because whether he stayed in Cleveland and won a couple or goes to Miami and wins, he still not better than Jordan.
The closest thing we've seen since Jordan is Kobe, and even he's not really that close.
What can't be disputed is the whole "Decision," thing was a disaster. It was a bad move by the LeBron camp and it backfired in their faces. Hopefully LeBron will learn from that PR nightmare and make better media decisions in the future. It hurt his brand and reputation, it also exposed that he's really not as smart as everyone thought he was. He came off as a power hungry egotistical maniac with little or no feelings to all of the fans who supported him in his hometown for his entire career. I'm sure that wasn't his intention, but it's how 99% of the people watching saw it.
Again, all of this will be forgotten if he can 3-peat or at least win the next 3 out of 4 titles.
Shit, I think I owe Riley a dollar now.
my main point was that Jordan, Bird, and magic all played in major markets and they all had hall of famers on their team.
Would Pippen been as good if he didn't have Jordan? Maybe, maybe not. But would Jordan have won any titles without Pippen? Probably not. That is the point.
If Lebron had played in a major market with other star players already, he probably would not have left. That is the difference between the scenarios. So he had to leave for a major market and join other stars because Cleveland is a shithole and the team has been run terribly. They could have had Amari last year and wouldn't give up JJ Hickson? Really? They had money to spend on a point guard and they picked Mo Williams? Ok?
The man signed a contract, lived up to it, (no holdouts or trade demands), gave the team 7 years to get him help, and they failed.
My only advice to him is wrap it up when you are tapping that fine Cuban ass down in Miami
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